Last summer I had the chance to travel the country with my wife to interview influential thinkers and actors in the areas of the social gospel and Christian humanitarianism.  On one occasion I sat down with Tony Campolo, one such influential thinker and author of Red Letter Christians, in his office outside of Philadelphia. 

Our conversation touched on numerous topics that didn’t make the final cut for the book (Humanitarian Jesus).  One of those topics was health care reform.  What follows is a rather un-edited snippet of the interview on that topic:

One of the things that pisses me off more than anything is unsolicited advice. Take that a step further, unwanted unwelcome theology. For many years I lived in a simple “Christian” bubble. I prayed, things worked out. I fasted, I got an answer. I went to church; I was made to feel accepted. Things were neat…they were hard at times, but the hard made sense, and the difficult was approachable and “doable.” My life’s theology had a lot of pavement on it. The exits were clearly marked, the signage was obvious, and the lanes were evident and orderly. Life was good.

But life always tends to take mysterious turns and now I find myself at a place in life where that theological highway has long run out, but the road to life is still continuing with all its fury. There are no lanes, no clear exits, and what signs are left all look the same. Am I making the right choice? How does God fit into all of this? Where is the “help” when I need it? I’ve continually found myself in new journeys with God; the funny thing is, I’ve grown exponentially over the last 8 years, but I have very little “material” goods to show for it.

Let me explain further. I’ll just keep it real. I don’t own a home, no where near it. My 401K is a joke and took a serious hit over the last 2 years. We drive 15 year old cars. We have no health insurance— the health insurance plan we have is a joke, we pay $400 a month for a $7000 deductible. My $4800 a year is subsidizing those with Cadillac plans. I work 5-7 part time jobs at a time—never seemingly “good enough” for that full time position. The things most of us have been brought up on to believe in as “secure” are not there for us (savings, assets, investments). Moreover, I’m in the admirals club in student loans—I’ll leave it to your imagination as to what that number is.

Do I want people to feel sorry for me? Hell no! Do I want society’s pity? Hell no! Do we live like a “victim?” Hell mo-fo no! The reality is that we made some decisions: going to grad school; working in the urban non-profit world; marrying someone from the urban non-profit world; and living a life that we feel pleases God, which at times got us into “trouble.” I own all of that. No regrets on that end.

The point of this is…the story. The narrative. Our story is one of the millions in this country right now. Our story seems to be gaining in numbers, unfortunately, almost every day. Our story is America right now…so I’m no different. I’m just writing about it.

I know, I know, some of you reading this right now want to offer up what we “should” be doing and where we “can” go in life. I know, hell, 14 years ago I would’ve been trying to do the same thing. But stop yourself right there. Just sit in this tension for a minute or two. Trust me we’ve tried just about everything: saving, paying off the little credit card to pay off the big credit card; paying off the big credit card to pay off the little credit card; cutting cable; cutting cell phone usage; negotiating lower APR’s on our credit cards; driving cars until they run down into the ground; savings; asking for help; filing unemployment; getting a smaller place to live; moving; saving; stop eating out; saving; storing up little checks for “rainy days;” having folks move in to subsidize the rent; filling out over 300 applications in a year for employment around the country; saving; asking parents for help; cutting even more frills in our budget; consolidation; saving; filing taxes separately; manse allowances; taking all the deductions humanly possible; driving 15 year old cars and did I mention saving? (Trust me the list goes on, but I’m not going to bore you).

The reality is that we, as a country, are in a tough spot right now. What I have a hard time getting my head around is that I am the “American Dream.” Came out of the ‘hood; changed my life; served my community; got legit jobs; went to college; got 4 degrees; got the PhD and at the end of the day; have worked my ass off over the last 17 years to stay out of jail; but, we’re still  in a real messed up spot. What do I tell the next generation of college students that enter my classroom everyday? What do I tell Black/ Latino students who see me as an “example” of what to do? What do I tell my little girl? At times I feel as though I should have just stayed in the ‘hood. I was making $5-$8000 a week. I had brand new cars, and I had “respect.” Sure I had to watch my back, sure I would probably be in jail, but at least that was familiar…right? I don’t know. But one things for sure, things aren’t that much prettier on the “other side”—especially these days.

I mean, what is the “American Dream” anyways right? Does God even care about that? That’s where it gets interesting for me. God, for our family, has taken away all the securities we have socially constructed as safety nets. God has shown us the power of faith, prayer, and the journey of discipleship—all of which look completely different when you’re on the “bottom side” of the American Dream. You say, “Dan, c’mon, God isn’t about the American Dream, church isn’t’ about that!” Well my friend, you’re right, on a tangible level, God is not about that American Dream, however the reality is that we, as a church, have equated success, fame, money, wealth, securities, and living the good life with being “blessed.” We tend to see God as this cosmic ATM when rubbed just the right way, “He’ll bless you!” I’ve moved beyond that image of God and into a mysterious God who says, “Wow, things are as messed up as they seem…man, let me just walk with you!” I see a God who feels the same pain as me and the other millions who have the same story. I see a God who is there even when you don’t make headlines. But here is the deal, that don’t make newsletters! When people win awards they don’t get up and thank God for all the pain, unhappiness, and misery they have in their life. We want success stories to make us feel the sense of ease we all really want to feel. Moreover, we don’t realize that they call them miracles for a reason.

Bottom line is this, we’re going to make it. Will we be rich and own that home and drive that new Audi? Probably not. But at the end of the day we’re still connected to God. You ask, “are those who drive that Audi not connected to God then?” No, of course not, it’s just a different connection. Material goods and the “American Dream” can blind true faith; at the end of the day, when you’ve done everything the “right way” and have tried your best…and things are still failing/ coming apart, you’ve just gotta let it fail and let God do the rest….

In an astonishing announcement from our nation’s capitol, President Obama has confirmed that he was indeed a Kenyan-born plant; the key component of an African conspiracy to bring America back to a purely capitalistic governmental policy. With Glen Beck at his side, a broad grin on his face, and his trademark eloquence, President Obama announced a sweeping series of executive decrees.

Having sold all public schools to the McDonalds corporation’s new “Ronald McDonald Happy School” division, parents of any student enrolled would now be responsible to pay the nearly $25,000 annual tuition that the “communist socialists” administrations of the past had supported. Tuition will include a free Happy Meal as part of a “Freedom Fridays” celebration.

In addition, all “socialist intrusion” in higher education is also ending. Harvard University reported being swamped with new applications, as their $ 50,000 plus annual tuition is suddenly very competitive to the formerly “socialist enclaves” known as public universities. A deal with the Ford Corporation, who has launched a “Forderversities” division, is pending. It is rumored that top graduates will receive free, eight cylinder Explorers, left over from the socialist expansion of President Bush.

Conversant Life is at its best when it creates a dialogue. Part of what has weakened the witness of the church has been its inability to have an intelligent conversation without it degenerating into a “Liberal” vs “Conservative” cage match. Thanks to each of you who have engaged a difficult issue in this wonderful cyber-community.

Three things I have come away with:

I might not think highly enough of the church. Several friends have pointed out that the church’s role in this mess is to step in and provide for those in need. Wow, I love that. And, to be honest, I also think, “good luck!” Maybe if churches cleared out the pews and replaced them with aluminum hospital beds, or if we liquidated all the overhead projectors stored in dusty basement Sunday school rooms, we might have a chance. Maybe I’m too cynical. I need to work that out.