Carolyn--

Wow, what a fascinating conversation! I think this speaks volumes about the two major groups within Christianity that seem to be at odds: The emergents (represented by Tony Jones) and the new Baptist Calvinists (represented by John Piper). I found an article that shows how popular John Piper and his Calvinist views have become among younger Christians, especially men (see http://www.abpnews.com/3149.article). It's part of the Passion Movement (with Chris Tomlin as the de facto worship poster boy). In response to this trend, Roger Olson writes: "My experience is that many young Christians swept up by this wave know little about the details of this kind of Calvinism. Many of them are simply shocked to find out that it entails belief in limited atonement." He continues: "However, after a while, many of them gradually accept it lock, stock and barrel because they don't know any alternative."

On the emergent side, I think the passion that Jones and Pagitt show for "the least of these" demonstrates an important aspect of our faith that has been overlooked or at least deemphasized by large portions of the church. We somehow think that if there are agencies out there (Voice of the Martyrs, World Vision, International Justice Mission, etc.) addressing the horrible things happening to people in our world, then we're off the hook. But Jones and other emergents are saying, look, if you aren't incorporating these values into your everyday experience as a believer, you aren't living out the full gospel of Jesus.

It's too bad these two groups are so different. Maybe we need a "third language" to bring perspective. That's what Mako Fujimura is advocating, not just in cases like this, but in the entire culture. In fact, he sees Christianity as a kind of third language that is desperately needed in a world polarized into opposing views (see his blog on this at http://www.conversantlife.com/third-language).

This conversation came across my radar last year, when I was watching DVD's from the conference (The Supremacy of God in a Post-modern World) where Piper made the comments that are quoted in this dialog. Having listened to him for years and read several of his books, I find him to be one of the most refreshingly honest, humble and transparent speakers I've ever heard, while standing on what I consider to be solid ground theologically. (That's not to say I agree 100% with every word he says, but I don't think appreciating him and learning from him requires that.)

I have read critiques of "Piperism," and "new-Calvinism," and honestly, a lot of the main criticisms I read are things that I do not see or hear in my reading/listening. He is bold and assertive to be sure, but even when he is describing something he thoroughly disagrees with, I sense true humility in his delivery. I expect that his harshest critics are those who only listen to sound bytes, rather than those who take the time to listen to/read him regularly. This clip, for example, is a sound byte transcribed from a Q&A session at a conference, where the moderator asked him about this exchange.

For example, those who are opposed to his Calvinism might be surprised by some of the things he says about his Armenian brothers in a teaching series he gave at his church on Calvinism (available for free download from www.DesiringGod.org). He is not an arrogant Calvinist, as so many have accused him of.

Something I most appreciate about Piper is that he is teachable - he is still learning from others. Listening to him talk opening about his weaknesses is very refreshing - he is no superman, but he's exemplary in his earnestness for holiness and truth, and that really resonates with me.