When it came to writing a book on the social gospel and Christian humanitarianism, Ryan Dobson and I decided that it would be important to engage people who were active in the work and ideas -- people who were living out the notion that God has called us to invest in His world for His glory and His mission.

That led me on a journey last year during which I interviewed thirteen passionate, interesting, and highly invested servants.  Some of them you will know (like Tony Campolo, Francis Chan, Franklin Graham) and some of them you might not (like Jim Moriarty, Gilbert Lennox, Brad Corrigan) but all are worth the read.

This series is an effort to introduce them to you.  The full interviews are in the book, but I hope these passages will be engaging and uplifting as you consider what it means to follow the Humanitarian Jesus.

Interview:                    Francis Chan

Subject Area:              The Church & Radical Charity

Organization:              Cornerstone Church

Books:                        Crazy Love, Forgotten God

Date:                           October 13, 2009 

 

It was a rainy morning as I started to drive from my home in San Diego to Francis Chan’s church in Simi Valley, just north of Los Angeles.  With just a tad over 150 miles to log, I had plenty of time to think about Francis and our discussion.  A friend turned me on to him for this book and to prepare I had purchased and read his two books and watched his video blogs.  I was intrigued by his ideas, his church commitment to give away 50% of their income, and the biblically solid messages preached in his books (which have sold well over 500,000 copies).  I quickly realized that Chan was not another example of a now tired genre – over packaged “cool” pastors preaching soft theology in artistic ways – but I wanted to know why. I wanted to find out more about his personal journey and how he has handled the challenges of doing what this book suggests we all must…

We sat down in his sparse office in the corner of a non-descript church building hidden in the middle of a neighborhood.  I quickly found my footing and discovered that we had more in common than I thought (including a love for surfing and several good friends)….

  

CB:  In the Preface to your book Crazy Love, you make the following statement:

 

“God put me in Simi Valley, California, to lead a church of comfortable people into lives of risk and adventure.  I believe He wants us to love others so much that we go to extremes to help them.  I believe He wants us to be known for giving – of our time, our money, and our abilities – and to start a movement of ‘giving’ churches.  In so doing, we can alleviate the suffering in the world and change the reputation of His bride in America.  Some people, even some at my church, have told me flat-out, ‘You’re crazy.”  But I can’t imagine devoting my life to a greater vision.”

 

What triggered those perspectives?    

 

FC:  When it started, it took some faith in my personal life.  I got to a point where I just knew God was going to provide because He showed me He would over and over again.  I began to realize that the more we gave, the more we were fine. And after a while, it almost didn’t feel like faith anymore because He’d shown me so many times.  I got to the point that I just wasn’t worried about myself.  I’d tell my wife we could give everything away right then and it would work out.  It’s supernatural, God’s watching.  And He’s shown us too many times. 

 

So I had that personal conviction, but for some reason there was a block in my thinking because while I believed it for me, I didn’t believe it for you.  I knew God would take care of me, but I was scared to even ask people to give in case He wasn’t going to come through for them like He did for me.  I had to really think and ask myself, “Do I believe this for the sake of this church?”  And I began to realize that I’m obviously not His favorite child, the only one He’s going to do this for.  He makes these promises in Scripture and I need to trust that the same principal that’s been true in my life is true for all believers and true for the church at large.

 

As our church started to give more and more, it was overwhelming. It was like tears to my eyes type of good.  Our congregation just came alive.  It was such a great change in our church, that my desire was for every church and Christian to experience it.  It’s just good.

 

CB:  You make the comment in Crazy Love, “The point of your life is to point to Him.  Whatever you are doing, God wants to be glorified, because this whole thing is His. It is His movie, His world, His gift.”  And you talk in other places about the reality of how short and fragile our physical existence is.  I take these comments to suggest a belief that what matters in the final sense is somebody’s eternal status before God --  are they forgiven, have they been reconciled.

 

At the same time, when you look at poverty, when you look at human trafficking, when you look at these great social evils that exist – that we walk in – they matter.  They matter deeply to you and your church.  So how do you confront both these issues? How do you say to the poor person, “Your poverty matters to me, but your soul matters more…”?

 

FC:  First, there are these tensions we have in our lives, like those you mentioned, that only the Holy Spirit can accomplish in us.  For example, lately I’ve been wrestling with how to have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart and at the same time rejoice always.  I’m to always be rejoicing over my salvation and always anguishing over these people who are lost – bawling on this end and rejoicing on that end.  How do I do that?  Somehow it’s got to be supernatural because on paper they seem mutually exclusive.  I don’t get it completely and that’s where I go to the Holy Spirit and say – somehow these truths are in Scripture and you need to make both of those things a reality in my life. 

 

I would say the same is true in this instance.  On the one hand I hurt for those in need.  I wonder how I would feel if I were starving, if I couldn’t find clean water for my family, what if I was being raped repeatedly all day or my daughter was being raped repeatedly all day.  On the other hand, there is a reality that if that’s anguish in this life, there’s going to be even greater anguish afterwards for those that don’t know Him.  There’s an even bigger issue there.

 

Only the Holy Spirit at work in me can allow me to carry all of these burdens.  I hate to be so simplistic, but I don’t think you can write it out on paper.  It’s not going to work.  It doesn’t compute.  It has to be supernatural because both are true and happening simultaneously.  I have to look at that person as though it were Jesus.  I’ve got to feed him, give him water, cloth him.  At that same time I’ve got to deal with his eternal reality and need of the gospel.