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As I listen to my washing machine that is about as old as I am rattle and shake, I too woke this morning a little rattled and shaken. The past few weeks I have written a bit on self-care: How it makes you aware; it brings you to a deeper place within yourself and it makes you care. You see, when you know you are loved, then you can't help but love your neighbor. You know the shame you carry, your guilt, the dark parts of your soul and even with that you can still experience love. However, there are people wandering around this morning that have a lot of love lost. Instead of recognizing their own fear and shame they are trying to conquer it and run over others.
Over the weekend I heard about two stories that caused the unsettling feeling in my stomach. The first was about the state of Arizona. The governor signed into law a terrible piece of legislation that shows the awful parts of history repeating itself. As Jim Wallis said, "It is now illegal to love your neighbor in the state of Arizona." If you are with an undocumented person you can be arrested. If you look "suspicious" you better have ID. Are we one step away from armbands and painting on store windows?
Police resources will be spent on hunting down people who, for the
lack of a broken system, have not had as easy of a path to citizenship
as my great grandparents from England did last century. The Sheriffs
even spoke out against this law because they don't want to break apart
families or raid sanctuary churches... what have we become? Yesterday
at church someone shared that their uncle had already been pulled over
twice. Words like "watched," "hunted," and "scared" are being tossed
around and this is not the new preview to Nightmare on Elm Street. It's a real nightmare. The second story was about singer Jennifer Knapp coming out. She has been in a loving relationship with a woman for eight years. I watched her interview with Larry King and what stuck me about the hour was not her, but the pastor of New Horizon Fellowship, Bob Botsford. He let Jennifer know he was praying for her to find her faith again. He wanted to confront her and even said in the interview, "I'm here because I'm concerned. You're calling yourself a Christian still." She repeatedly talked about her faith and that she has a community of believers in relationship with her supporting her. She's not alone. Bob seemed to misunderstand that based on the view of his role. He said, "I am to be a light in a dark place." He called on people to welcome Jennifer back when she's ready with open arms, to which she responded, "Where did I go?" He seemed offended that she wasn't listening to him and his "truth" and he didn't appear to be listening to her. As a pastor you have a congregation, but when you start calling yourself the light, I begin to worry. I have seen many pastors who speak at a national level have their genuine care turn to concern, and then their concern turn to fear. Thus people begin to be motivated out of a scary place because there is immense pressure in keeping the standards and rules. Even Jesus didn't have the audiences in his day that some mega pastors do today. It changes a part of your soul when you are responsible for thousands upon thousands... that's not our role. A leader is to let Jesus be the light and we show that light in our brokenness and vulnerability, not an iron fist or curtain. (continued below picture)
What made me sigh with heavy angst was when Bob was vetting Jennifer in front of his congregants and on his blog. He is calling her a bad example. Jennifer asked him not to do that because he doesn't know her personally, neither do the people he is talking to. He said she needed to be an example, a role model, but is he asking her to deny who she is and put on a "perfect appearance"? What I think he meant is that in his mind she needs to be made an example of. Jennifer asked for clarification saying, You mean that if a teen in your church is questioning her sexuality and her faith, you want her to choose her faith? "Yes," Bob said. So now she's shamed into believing something you said because you told her that she is living a life of sin, like me. Instantly, I pictured a girl in my mind. I have had too many conversation and done too much study to know that for some sexuality is not "a choice." It is a muddy, gray issue that changes the second the issues become people in your community -- your friends, your loved ones. It is an area that needs love and care, NOT fear and condemnation. That teen needs a safe community that will walk with her no matter her choices, but instead we want to put her in a box... don't mess up. We don't need to make examples of women like Jennifer or the woman caught in adultery or the hurt Gentile, we need them to help us understand their journeys. By pushing them away we miss an extraordinary opportunity to get to know someone else God loves. Just because they don't look or act like us does not mean they are not welcome at the table. We need to go eat at theirs. Ted Haggard was also on the show. He has obviously been humbled since the Jesus Camp days. His words rang with truth as only a man who has experienced an immense amount of grace can express. He cautioned everyone that Jesus pointed not at the woman or at Jennifer or at the Gentiles. Jesus pointed at the religious elites of the day. Haggard called on everyone to follow Jesus' example of love, not rules -- plain and simple, love. Even I am struggling with that today when I think of the governor with pen in hand or of Pastor Bob who I would like to assume unconsciously called himself "the light in the dark place." However, the truth comes forth from our subconscious and it rings out too, in fear, not love. The truth is we're not safe anywhere. Really every breath is a gift. Not to be overly morbid, but we're all one brain aneurysm away from eternity. An eternity that hangs not on works, but a life lived in love. There is such freedom in knowing that I don't have to know all of the answers. That a teen wrestling with these issues is still in the fold of God no matter what I think. I don't have to be a judge. Sure, I have my voices that nag at me to judge these rulers of the day, but I don't know them. So all I can do is care even more for those who are hurting in my own community and hold the leaders loosely. We will never live in a world without this tension, so I live every day choosing to love. When I get scared, (because I'm human, it happens) I have to pause and ask myself why. I don't make laws or tell people they're wrong. I simply stop and go deep within my own soul to a safe place where the Spirit lives. I then remember that I am loved and that above all else, I am called to care out of that place of love. So as my washing machine stops teetering on its tired legs, so do I pause and listen to the sounds of my heart and my community. Of the issues that truly are in my life, because it's never about facts and issues. It's always about people. Jesus knew that and I am learning. Praise God for that. (photos by Megan Lundgren) |
Comments
Kristin,
Thank you for your words here. I was on a similar path over the last week, which started with a viral email asking the receivers to sign a petition to boycott Jennifer Knapp's new album. It is a loud world out there, knocking at my door and telling me to choose - to stand up for something; for a cause or a belief. All I could do was wonder if it is less about the cause and more about the person. That I am called not to raise my voice for a cause, but to use my voice as a salve to heal the wounded. That I am not called to stand in the judgment seat, but to willingly bear my own scars as a reminder of the grace I have been shown. That I am not called to sign my name on a petition to aid in the systematic disadvantage of others. But because my name is written in the book of life I am called to love those the world forgets; the widow, the orphan, the alien. I am called to love my neighbor and to be reminded that my neighbor, even in my sin and ignorance, has graced me with love.
So, instead of signing the petition, I dug my ipod out of my bag and put on some of Jennifer Knapp's songs that have carried me through dark times, as a reminder that we worship together.
Your words are refreshing and serve as good reminders. Thank you for that.
Deal
Oh friend - I love that!! I too wanted to pull out my old Jennifer Knapp CD too. May we remember that we're all equal in the sight of the Lord. And if I might add a hearty thanks for not signing that petition and I for one, will be buying her new album in support of her.
No, Kristin, we're not "all equal in the sight of the Lord." Those who have been made new creations through Jesus Christ and received the forgiveness of their sins are friends of God and will spend eternity with him. Those who have not, are not and will not.
And its not by our own efforts, but because of Jesus Christ. Nobody can boast.
This isn't judgment or condemnation. It is love. God loves Jennifer now as much as he ever has, but if she remains unrepentant God will one day send her to hell. The good news is that he is always there to take her back, should she ever choose him again.
Jesse, I wish it were that easy for me to come to that conclusion. I was replying to my friend’s comment in terms of there is no way that I know who is a believer and who is not. Nor do I know who has repented and who has not. In those terms, we are all equal until judgment day. I do not know Jennifer’s heart, I do not know Bob’s heart, I do not know your heart. As far as I am concerned it is not my job to determine if she is living in sin or not. They are not in my community and even then I am not God. God is big enough to handle them, so I am leaving it up to God. I think we all are sinning, so we’re all up for some kind of surprise when we get to heaven and see who is there. I am in no position to say things like “if she remains in a lifestyle of sin.” Because as far as my humanity is concerned, I am sinning every day. I am trying to grow in my love and grace and leave the condemning up to God. That does not mean “no rules.” Rather when love is the ultimate, the rules that come out of that place come from a different lens, one of reconciliation and grace… one that journeys with people, and doesn’t throw stones or make assumptions about them. I am limited, God is not. I am not able to make the call that Jennifer is out of the fold of God because if I see her as God sees her, then God is still journeying with her, not abandoning her.
Some very authentic thinking here. But we also have to be careful, if our circumspection is to be fully circumspect, to reflect on as many of Jesus' teachings at once as we can. These include:
"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand and it gives light to everyone in the house." (Matthew 5:14-15)
You are right in writing that we are reflectors of Christ the Light, but here Jesus also taught that to some degree we are lights ourselves, lit against the darkness.
"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." (Matthew 18:15-17)
Bob Botsford, not being Jennifer's pastor, may not be the one to confront her blending of sexual sin and a "Christian testimony," but somebody should be doing it--most preferably in her local church body. Many people dismiss expulsion of "persistent sinners" (I know, we are all this) as Pauline; but here we see it as most certainly of Jesus.
"But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander." (Matthew 15:18-19)
Many people make the mistake of stating that all of Jesus' rebukes were targeted at the religious leaders. Here and elsewhere, Jesus lifted up standards--and accompanying calls to repentance (remember that he told the adulterous woman to "sin no more")--for all of us. If we still hold that homosexuality is sexual immorality--and yes, I am aware that there are an increasing number who do not--then we must say something. But those who should be doing the most talking are those closest to the one who "makes a practice of sinning" (1 John 3:8); and most of their talking should be to one another.
There is an important place for warning and admonishment in public settings, but love is still best rendered face-to-face, heart-to-heart, maybe tears-to-tears.
Hi Jeff, welcome to the conversant team. Thanks for your insights and yes of course we need to look at the message of Jesus as a whole and also remember the context of the time and that we are reading an interpreted text. I thank you for bringing Matthew 5 into the picture because of course that is the Beatitudes passage. There we see the marginalized, the persecuted, the mournful and meek being exalted by God. That is an extremely sacred sermon, maybe the most important that Jesus gave and in that light… I am not sure we can talk about being the light on the hill without talking about the Beatitudes. It would seem to me in my studying of the text that one flows out of the other. To be a light on the hill does not mean to point the finger or be holier than thou or even talking to sinners, it is calling to the brokenhearted and persecuted to be the salt and light. It is a passage of Jesus fulfilling the law and establishing an order that revolves around love. A life lived out of love, even loving our enemies, as this chapter ends, with is a radical message. One that if Christians did this, and not in a Hallmark card kind of relativistic way, but in the true sense of understanding compassion and grace, the world could see a better light on the hill than they have in recent history.
Even as you mention the story of the woman in adultery (such a terrible name I might add, I wish to change it to “where is the guy?”), but even in that story it is not a story of condemnation, rather the opposite is true. This woman didn’t know she had a choice to live a different way. She was treated as expendable (Brennan Manning’s words not mine). By telling her that, Jesus was actually freeing her from what society had told her was "her place"-- a good for nothing slut who deserves death. Jesus writes in the sand, he tells her that he doesn't condemn her and go live out of that freedom because he LOVES her. We can’t tell that story as “go and sin no more” without looking at the context of what took place. Jesus gave her life meaning, not discipline.
And lastly you’re right, this issue is not a clear one. Sexuality has been historically interpreted for years. There are so many issues that make it not a black or white issue, so we might not even be on the same semantic ground to begin with. I am finding more and more that the need that we "must say something" is driven out of a place of deep fear. God is big enough to handle this. I trust God and will listen to God more than my need to say something. I think there are enough people talking and shouting in this world... there needs to be more space to listen and to listen to the people who are mentioned in the beatitudes. Warning and admonishment that Jesus gave was to all people, but by far was to the religious systems of the day who were far more interested in loving the law more than the Lord. So yes, face to face and namely in relationship and in community are the best places for these conversations. Currently, our world is making that increasingly hard though, so for now I will let others do the shouting.
This all begs the question where do I go to find safety and love just as I am if wherever I go people are just trying to talk and not listen? Who will journey with me? We are a nation of answers and no longer one of journeyers. I want to be a journeyer and will wait for God to have the answers.
Regarding "Jesus' example of love, not rules", I just want to point out what Jesus actually said to the woman caught in adultery: "go and sin no more"
And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more." [John 8:11]
He didn't say she could continue living a life of sin. Jesus doesn't say that we can make up our own personal right and wrong. We are indeed supposed to show love and grace to others. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God, but we are supposed to repent of our sin and turn from it, praying that He will give us the strength to get back up when we fail, and that He will create in us a clean heart -- that He will clothe us with Himself and make us more like Him. We are all sinners, but we are also supposed to be working to rid ourselves of our sinful nature and its lusts.
It is quite true that Jesus was constantly speaking out against the religious legalists of the time. However, we don't get to just ignore clear teaching from both the old and new testaments and say that there is only "love, not rules".
P.S. The photography is lovely.
Hi Nathan (and might I add to readers, this is not my husband... he has your same name).
I agree with you and I just read through it again, and I didn't write "love, not rules." I'm talking about the rules being driven by love and grace and being on journeys with people. I am definitely not communicating to ignore teaching. Rather to follow the commandments of Jesus which above all else is love. Matt 22 (NIV) 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c]
This is the commandment I will follow when it comes to being in relationship with others first and foremost. How quickly we jump to the standards and rules, but Jesus was about people first too. He doesn't abandon them from the women who were outcast to the thief on the cross, he is about people and their stories. I believe he still is.
Please see comment above about the context of the "go and sin no more"
And thank you about the comments on the photos. My friend Megan is a gifted photographer. I hope to use more of her work. Blessings to you!
Forgive my cynicism in the following statement:
If love never entails making judgment calls on whether a persons actions are sinful, Paul and the rest of the New Testament writers were unloving. Jesus included.
The Church has got to stand up for something and love is a fine thing to stand up for as long as it is love as defined by Scripture which is cannot be divorced from truth. But the notion that we just need to love people, never determining whether something is sinful, is completely anti-Biblical at every level.
I've heard this same sentiment expressed a few times now: its not about homosexuality, its about the person. Why don't we just love the person? Why do we have to figure out who's right and who's wrong, who's in and who's out? Jesus loved, why can't we?
And the answer: that's exactly what we're doing - that's what Pastor Bob was doing - because loving people means seeing the value that they have and how sin will ultimately destroy that value.
I'm not saying we need to light up Jennifer Knapp in the blogosphere or drag her through the mud, but Pastor Bob was right - homosexuality is a sin and to dismiss it as something other than sin puts her in danger of hell. Christ cannot forgive something that we refuse to repent of. And I'm not condemning those who struggle all their lives with a sin. That they struggle means they are doing things they ultimately don't want to and wish to be free of it...and try to be free of it. Jennifer Knapp isn't doing that. She's accepted her homosexuality as blessed by God (because the only command in the New Testament, according to her, is to love God and love our neighbors).
By all means, let's love Jennifer and others who struggle with homosexuality (or have accepted their homosexuality as blessed). Absolutely. But let's love like Jesus did - who took sin serious enough that it required his atoning death on the cross. He didn't dismiss sin, he didn't avoid truth. He spoke the truth in love. And when someone remained unrepentant in their sin, he commanded us to treat them as an unbeliever - not with hate, as some suppose - but with love and with the hope that they will repent of their sin, trust in Jesus Christ, and come back into the family.
Thank you Kristin for this thought provoking article. I think some of the repliers are missing the overall point you are trying to make. So much of our Christianity in the US has been focused on judgment, condemnation, sin and hell. While those elements are prevalent in the Bible, and yes, Jesus did come to Earth and die to atone for our sins because we could never do so ourselves, there is an overarching theme of love and grace. If we focus too much on hell and sin, what does that do to our image of God? Is God to be feared because we are so afraid of messing up? Or is God a lover, a friend, who wants intimacy with us?
The issue you bring up is not a black and white one, it is not an either-or one. I will leave the judging up to the God that I worship, the Jesus that hung around with sinners and those marginalized from society. I would rather err on the side of love and grace and welcome others into the Kingdom than put up barriers between us.
Thank you guest. I appreciate your insight into this blog and your view of God. I will err with you on that. :)
To me what's sad about Jennifer Knapp, and really about much of the church, is that she doesn't appear to know how to access the healing that Jesus offers. Her only choice then is to give in to what is churning inside and "be real" or to bury it and pretend. But deliverance is for now!
Very very interesting stuff here, great article Kristin, and while the biggest part of me wants to avoid all the conflict altogether (as I tend to do whenever conflict comes up), I can't help but feel like I can try and (Lord willing) add another perspective to this rich discussion.
While I'll stay away from the yes-or-no about homosexuality itself, I think something that we're discussing at the heart of this is how to deal with those in the Church dealing with sin.
In a lot of ways I must agree with Jesse. I know this is a tough topic, so I'll be delicate as much as possible and try to explain what I'm thinking. While it is true that modern American Christianity has earned the stereotype of condemning and hateful, which is completely misguided, I can't seem to get away from a passage i read the other night:
It comes from 1 Corinthians 5
1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature[a] may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
6Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.
9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."[b]"
I know thats a long passage but in reading this, it would appear (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Paul is calling us to call out our brothers and sisters that are living in sin. Now, to go back to Matthew, yes, this starts on a one-on-one level, then a small group. By no means do I believe this means we are called to get on a soapbox (or television show) and judge people.
But it is saying that the Church is Christs bride. And I really believe that Scripture calls us to holiness and repentance. I think I have too many ideas going through my head to possibly explain everything.
I find it interesting that paul says we are to judge those in the church that call themselves followers of Christ. I am part of that Body, and I want all of us--not just myself--presently oursleves pure to Lord. I think American Christianity ahs defintively pointed fingers in the wrong direction. Paul says here to not judge those that are outside of the Body, for they will be judged by the Lord. But if someone calls themselves a follower and "Brother" they are held to standards.
Now I know that we are not perfect, we sin, we continue to fall. But those are that are true followers of the Lord are on a road to holiness.
I particularly want to point out the last section of the passage. "turn them over to satan" Thats not something we hear talked about much in the New Testament..let only current Christianity. But I think Paul is saying that we can't sit idly and let people simply decide for themselves what sins to abide by and what not to, and simply "love them regardless" Yes we are to love unconditionally, but it is Christ himself that says the Father in Heaven disciplines those whom He loves.
Id love to hear thoughts on this passage and other ideas of what Paul was getting at here. I think all we can do is keep coming back to Scripture for guidance, and maybe that means we accept something that we don't necassarily want to accept. We have to take the Word as it is, and we can't add anything of our own to it.
Ok that was alot I know so thanks for reading and thanks for opening up this conversation. And for the record "A LIttle More" is an awesome song and Jennifer KNapp still rocks!
"I am to be a light in a dark place." He called on people to welcome Jennifer back when she's ready with open arms, to which she responded, "Where did I go?"
------------------------
The assumption is that God (light) is within Bob, and sin (dark) is within Jennifer. Besides being judgmental, that also seems overly simplistic.
As far as calling people out on their sin - that's a tough one, I think. The times I have walked away from sin as an expression of my love for God (rather than being motivated solely by guilt/shame) have been within a loving community of people whose lives simply inspire mine.
When I watch people in my life who reflect God's love serving those who are hungry, poor, lonely, etc...I itch to do the same. When I see them walking away from addictions, materialism, lust, selfishness, etc...the chains that grip me begin to loosen.
So, I guess I think that regardless of whether gay relationships are sinful or not, I am not convinced that Pastor Bob's method is effective at doing much else besides shaming.
I'd love to read responses to my thoughts..
While this is not in direct reply, I thought it may be crucial to hear a small personal testimony of someone whose life is directly affected by the words being shared.
Throughout this discussion, the four words that arise most often are love, peace, grace and sin. Why, when I look at these four words, only one evokes flashbacks of hate and anger?
Sin. What is it? Who defines this word? Growing up, the sin that my family ever focused on was that which harmed the self and others. From my understanding and belief, sin is harmful. It can be detrimental to a life. So I have to wonder, with homosexuality, what is the sin?
As a gay individual, it was not my sexual orientation that harmed when I was young. The harm came from words of hate and ridicule. Harm was produced everytime I was told that homosexuality was abnormal. Harm overwhelmed when, because of the teaching of "leaders," I was caused to feel unloved, unwanted, as though the world may be better off without me.
The saddest part to me? The fact that not one who caused harm to me knew it, and clearly did not understand it. You see, because of the hate I witnessed, I was too fearful to acknowledge, understand and eventually accept my sexual orientation until I was 21. And even then, the onslaught of harm continued, largely by those who simply could not understand and in reality, just did not know any better.
So I have to ask again, what is sin? If it causes harm, then please tell me, what is the harm of homosexuality? Does it interfere in your life? Does it harm the individual?
In my experience as a young gay man, the embrace of me, part of which being my sexual orientation, not once caused harm, it in fact was a liberation. The promiscuity that occured in my life? Not caused by my identification as a gay man, but by the years of suppression, oppression and fear. I do take responsibility for those times in my life, for those choices I made. But not one person can tell me it was my identification that caused my sin, that which caused me and others harm.
One may say the harm is in the "impurity of what homosexuality is." If I've been educated properly on this, was not the concept of homosexuality in the Bible largely surrounding incidences of sodomy, where a child was forced to have sex with an older man? And in other circumstaces, the sin of homosexuality in the Bible often stemmed from married men having affairs with other men, cheating on their wives. So, without committing acts of sodomy, cheating and causing others to do so, where is the sin in my sexual orientation? What is the harm being done in me being gay?
Many argue the choice of it. I'll admit, I did make a choice. I chose to finally accept and love all of who I am and who God has made me to be. I wouldn't choose to have a life where I am continuously ridiculed and spat upon with words of hate by those who are called to love me. The simple fact is, there was no choice in being gay. The choice was only to finally understand and embrace it.
I now must ask for God to give me grace for the hurt and pain I experience when I read words such as those spoken by Pastor Bob and the words of some of these responses. I must also ask God to help me find a way to love those who seem to hate me because of my natural identification.
Wow. Thank you for sharing your story, and for reminding me that God is the God of embrace, love, and inclusion.
Kristin,
I appreciate your desire to be graceful, and seek reconciliation and fellowship with those who are struggling with sin. However, I fear that, in your article, there is not a full representation of what it means to speak loving truth into this situation. It is difficult to give a fully balanced answer to this issue in a short space! I will still try to offer some thoughts--
It is a fairly foundational and basic idea that Christians need to 'judge' each other. This sort of judgment is the kind that discerns what it is that people need in order to grow into the fullness of knowledge of God and community with others. Without this sort of 'judgment,' it is impossible to provide instruction or correction, which, if we are honest, we all deeply need. As Paul aptly stated in Ephesians, we are to "put off falsehood and speak truthfully to [our] neighbor, for we are all members of one body." If we divest ourselves of any capacity to judge our fellow Christians, we then fail to exist in community; acceptance without the call to transformation results in a kind of individualism that is ignorant of the fullness of the intrinsic connectedness and mutual need that exists in the "body." If my arm becomes infected, I will seek to nurture it back to health. In severe cases, it may become gangrenous and need amputation.
While we cannot fully judge the hearts of individuals, we can certainly judge their actions. If a brother or sister drinks a six-pack of Budweiser every day, I need little more evidence that they need some gentle, yet firm, loving correction. It would profoundly unwise, at this point, not to mention severely unloving, to ignore the evidence that their heart is enraptured by the idol of alcohol.
The book of Proverbs states, in at least 17 verses that I can find, that correction, discipline, and rebuke are to be considered life giving, and beautiful things; they are true signs of love and of genuine friendship. "Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses." 27:6.
When Paul exhorts the Corinthians:
"But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat."
He does so not out of a lack of love, but in the fullness of love, for it does good neither to the individual who is immoral, nor the rest of the church body, to pretend that the idolatrous individual's faith is of merit when it is, in fact, not. We are talking about eternal outcomes here. The sermon on the mount was indeed fantastic:
"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!"
This, of course, is not to say that it is easy to discern precisely how these truths must be applied. Nonetheless, we must also remember that we are capable of doing so (albeit with some degree of risk) since we have the Holy Spirit and the Word to guide us. Certainly, there have been many cases where errors have taken place on the side of rigid, graceless legalism. We should not presume that the opposite has not also frequently been the case, however. The fear of man is great for many, and many have succumbed to it and failed to offer earnest correction where it was needed.
I hope and pray that you and those speaking about and to Jennifer are able to find the balance that is needed to speak the truth in love.
Blessings,
Jarrod
Jarrod, thanks for putting into betters words than I could exactly what I was trying to say earlier. We cannot simply just shrug our shoulders and say "let each person work it out with God, lets just all love each other" when I so often in Scripture see passages talking about rebuking and correcting each other of sin.
And to the young man that is a homosexual. I apologize on behalf of those that have harmed you, that have insulted and unloved you. I'm sorry for that happening, and it never should have.
To answer your question: What is sin? If you are taking a Biblical based definition of what sin is, it is not just a matter of harming another person or not. Sin by my definition is not doing what Gods Word commands me to do.
The argument today about whether homosexuality is a sin or not is based on the grounds that those that struggle with it don't have choice, and feel that God made them that way. My response would be this: what about the person that God calls to celibacy and God calls them to a pure lifestyle apart from sex. I know plenty of single people that struggle everyday with acting on their sexual desires, yet restrain because it is what God has called them to. Following God's commands are supposed to feel opposite to what we desire and is "normal" because we have sinful bodies that desire sin, not the other way around. I dont know how clearly I'm making my point here.
For example, it's very easy for me to lie, to swear, to cut someone else down, to be prideful, these things come natural to me, but the Bible tells me I am to fight them and pursue holiness.
I apologize I am late responding here, but I just came back to read the comments after Kristin referred to the conversation in her other post today. There are so many aspects tied into this conversation.
I don’t know Jennifer or Bob’s heart, and know very little of the story, but I have spent a great deal of time walking through these issues personally and with others. In my own story I was abused in a church, and ended up outside of the body for more than a year with little Christian support. When I did return I was not in a strong Biblically centered church. Through all of that my thinking, my heart, and my faith faltered and I ended up in sin. It wasn’t blatant actions that others could look at and say I was drinking, involved in inappropriate relations, or doing illegal things. I was actively involved in church, having daily time with God, doing my best to live faithfully, but inside I was so confused and messed up that I could not see and think correctly. I moved to a new town to join a different church that where I thought the pastor could help me learn, grow, and recover. I did my very best to be a part of this church, but the sin I was involved in was too strong and the pastor didn’t know how to work through the issues. Rather than realizing the spiritual need I had and addressing it through scripture he struggled in how to work with me and eventually decided he couldn’t do it. My sin was leaking out and affecting those around me in ways that he felt were damaging the church.
I was desperate for help and had fallen into great depression and despair. I was so spiritually malnourished I couldn’t even take in God’s word on my own and I needed help but I had been counseled to not reach outside of our church. Rather than calling on the community to walk with me, inviting them into the issue, and having the body support and provide me with guidance and accountability I was guided to remain silent and told that if I spoke to anyone about my struggles to learn and communicate with the pastor it would be seen as causing discord. Eventually that is exactly what occurred. I was then excommunicated from the church.
The fact is I was in sin. I am thankful that others were willing to call that out, but the way the rest of the situation was handled did not express love, grace, and care to me. The leaders determined there was difficulty communicating with me, and the process given in Matt. 5 gives us direction on how we can work through that process. In my situation the leaders removed me from the body of Christ because they made a “judgment” and determined that I was not a Christian because I was not walking faithfully. 1 Cor. 5 does tell us that believers are to “judge those inside”, but James 4:11 also says, “Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it.” These leaders were not able to understand the spiritual issue I was walking through and they never opened the Bible with me or prayed with, but through their past experience and desire to resolve the issue they judged the situation and instead of treating me as a sister who was in need of care, accountability, and help, I was classified as an unbeliever that was lying about being a believer so they handed me over to Satan (1 Cor. 5).
Thankfully God is amazing and is in the act of redeeming lives. I was quickly led to a discipleship relationship where I received the Biblical guidance, spiritual care, and nurturing that I needed to break through the issue and nurse me back to care. I know have a proper understanding of God’s character and my identity which were my key issues. I know see the severity of my sin and my need for God’s hand to be actively involved in that daily. I am now restored and redeemed and actively serving in ministry.
I share that story because when I hear about Jennifer I see a woman in need. I do not believe she understands God’s heart and care for her, how she has stepped away from God’s standards, what her identity is in him, and how that affects her life. She has made decisions that are actually sinful (we all do on a daily basis), and those decisions are leaking out and affecting others around her. I pray she is in a church that will help her to look at scripture to see what sin is, how it is present in her life, what the affects of sin are, what God’s character and heart are, and how that affects her identity. My lack of faith in God and lack of ability to trust him to heal and guide me resulted in great hurt not only for me but for a whole church of people that I love deeply. My sin made a mess, one I can’t clean up, but one that the Lord can change and use for his glory. That is my prayer for Jennifer, that the Lord will be allowed to change her, others, and situations so that he is the center of the story, so that he receives the glory, and so that his agenda and heart are communicated to the world.
Sherie